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Sunday, December 04, 2005

Debate of the Week 10: Religion of Peace

Is Islam truly a religion of peace, or is it all a devilish lie?

This one is going to hurt my chances of ever becoming President, and yet, I do not care.

Here’s my stance:

Islam is not a religion of peace. It is a religion of war, always has been, always will be.

First, history!

When Mohammed founded Islam he was an exile from his native Mecca, supposedly for being laughed out as a heretic, or driven out as criminal. Either way, he was a brigand who not only robbed caravans on a regular basis, he also wrote about the pleasures of plunder in the Koran. While he was away he used religion to raise an army of holy warriors to return to Mecca and conquer it, which he succeeded in doing. From that point forward he waged Jihad, which in literal terms means “struggle”, but in practical terms has always meant war, against any city he thought he could conquer. Every place he conquered he gave the people two choices: convert to Islam, or die. This pattern continues to this day as is evidenced by the Jihadists and Terrorists worldwide, as well as local oppression within otherwise officially peaceful nations like Saudi Arabia, where every Friday they have a public execution of Christians, and the occasional Jew. Forty-nine out of fifty terrorist worldwide are Muslims. The most violent nations o\in the world today are ones with large Muslim populations. Religion of peace my butt!

Now, theology!

I am convinced the antichrist will be a Muslim man. I think this because his birthplace is supposed to be somewhere in northern Iraq, or just north of Iraq. Also, the antichrist will behead every Christian he finds, and the only people beheading people these days are Muslims.

The Muslims claim to be descended from Ishmael. Ishmael is Abraham’s firstborn son to his slave girl Haggar. He was not the child of the promise, but God did give him a blessing where it was declared that his descendents would be “as a baying ass” and would “be a scourge unto their brothers”. Theologically speaking those brothers would be the Jews, whom the actively persecute at all turns, as was demanded by Mohammed himself. In my opinion, any religion or philosophy that demands the eradication of the Jews is pure Hellspawn. Frankly, all the persecution that the Jews have suffered throughout history is proof positive that they are the ones the Lord has blessed and chosen to bless the world. The devil hates all that God favors. The fact that the world will try to wipe out Israel in the last days is further evidence that Islam is likely to be heavily involved.

What do you think?

32 Comments:

  • You are right on, in my opinion. It is not a matter of being a bigot or having a bias toward the Jews, it is what the Bible tells us historically. It is something we need to continually pray about, but God's Kingdom and Will will prevail.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:04 PM  

  • What do I think?

    I think you will find that the Bible contains more examples of intolerance than the Qur’an. This promotion of intolerance and the requirement to think irrationally are the two main objections I have against all religions, particularly the monotheistic versions.

    By Anonymous cjb, at 2:56 AM  

  • Excellent post Daniel, and it's right on.

    Cjb said: " I think you will find that the Bible contains more examples of intolerance than the Qur’an." Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and my opinion is that Cjb's opinion is skewered! There is much violence in the old Testament I admit. But nowhere near as much as in the Koran. Jesus and Mohammed had absolutely nothing in common. Jesus preached peace and love towards everyone, not just Jews but everyone! How that can be compared with Mohammed advocating killing everyone who didn't agree with him is beyond my mental capacity.

    Islam is absolutely not a religion of peace. As you said, it is a religion of war, and I also believe the antichrist will be Muslim. According to Nostradamus (sp?) he shall be wearing a blue turbin.

    By Blogger Gayle, at 6:23 AM  

  • According to NOSTRADAMUS?

    By Blogger Ranando, at 6:47 AM  

  • ...not all Muslims are terrorists...but ALL terrorists ARE Muslims...
    LibbY!

    By Blogger Libby, at 7:15 AM  

  • I didn't know Timothy McViegh was a muslim?

    By Blogger Ranando, at 7:26 AM  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Mary Ann, at 7:32 AM  

  • I cannot believe that it's a religion of peace. But I also have known several moderate Muslims and I know they'd never even dream of killing.

    But let me put it this way.

    Some of the most conservative Christians are Amish and Mennonite. What makes them "conservative"? Well, Mennonites do things like not drive particular cars, not have a TV/radio, the women wear dresses all the time. And Amish take it farther and often don't drive cars at all, don't have electricity, etc. Some lesser known conservative Christian groups (such as Conservative SDA's) for instance believe in not eating meat or any animal products, living in the country, and many moderate/conservative SDA women only wear dresses.

    But Conservative Muslims? They go out and blow themselves up to secure a spot in Heaven.

    No, I cannot believe that Islam is a religion of peace.

    By Blogger Mary Ann, at 7:35 AM  

  • "So when you meet those who disbelieve, strike their necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds . . . And those who are killed in the cause of Allah never will waste their deeds." (Sura 47:4)

    For those of you who are unfamiliar with this verse it is taken directly from the Koran. I challenge anyone to find any similarly violent and hateful statement from Jesus Christ.

    The above Koran verse was copied from a related post by Texas fred at his blog "And THAT'S my opinion"

    http://texasfredshouse.blogspot.com/

    Thanks for the help Fred.

    By Blogger Daniel Levesque, at 7:52 AM  

  • After reading "Unveiling Islam" by former muslims Ergun & Emir Caner I will never believe that Islam is a religion of peace. I think a lot of muslims in the U.S. are peaceful but almost all muslim run countries are very violent. It is amazing how in most muslim countries you can't even get a government job if you are a Christian and your life is in danger.

    By Blogger Little Miss Chatterbox, at 8:28 AM  

  • Islam is not a Religion of Peace and I agree with that statement.

    I also feel that the worst country when it comes to how they treat their people is Saudi Arabia. They also teach hatred towards America and Americans in their schools and don't forget it was Saudi's who attacked us on 911.

    I just can't figure out why Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah was at the Crawford ranch with George W. Bush in April 2002.

    Have you ever been to Saudi Arabia? I have and believe me, they don't like American. Saudi Arabia is Islam at it's worst.

    I'm sure there is someone in here that can explain to me why Bush has such a great relation with these people. Is it really only about oil?

    By Blogger Ranando, at 9:17 AM  

  • Ranando,

    It's about 2 things. Oil and maintaining our military base in their country for rapid deployment purposes. One side effect of the war on terror is that we now have Afghanistan and Iraq to use as staging points and will be less reliant on the Saudis.

    By Blogger Daniel Levesque, at 11:55 AM  

  • Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and my opinion is that Cjb's opinion is skewered! There is much violence in the old Testament I admit. But nowhere near as much as in the Koran.

    Well, it isn’t just my opinion, Gayle. You can check for yourself the examples of intolerance in the Bible and Qur’an. And if it’s cruelty and violence you want, then the Bible has more than twice as many examples as the Qur’an.

    I challenge anyone to find any similarly violent and hateful statement from Jesus Christ.

    Okay, Daniel, how about these.

    “If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die.” (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)

    “Whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.” (2 Chronicles 15:13)

    By Anonymous cjb, at 12:08 PM  

  • CJB,

    You appear to have JEsus mixed up with the Old Testament writers. My challenge is for you to find words from Jesus advocating violence.

    This is, of course, to prove my point that fundamentalist Christians are non-violent due to the fact that Jesus taught love and forgiveness rather than hate and violence.

    By Blogger Daniel Levesque, at 12:13 PM  

  • My challenge is for you to find words from Jesus advocating violence.

    Well, if you are going to be pedantic, Daniel, here are some that are close.

    “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.” (Matthew 10:34-36)

    You stated elsewhere that you are a Bible literalist so I assumed that you stand by everything in the Old Testament as well.

    By Anonymous cjb, at 12:38 PM  

  • CJG,

    Touche, almost.

    You left out the context of your Jesus quote, which is the one I knew you would use. It does not advocate violence, but rather is meant as an illustration of the way mankind would be split over Him.

    As for me being a Bible literalist, you are correct. I take everything that is not meant to be open, like prophesies, very literally, right down to Jesus' example of how violent worldly enforcement of the law is less favorable than forgiveness.

    Jesus added a whole new dynamic to the Old Testament.

    By Blogger Daniel Levesque, at 7:43 PM  

  • Daniel,

    The Biblical Jesus gave the impression that he concurred with the Old Testament.

    “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.” (Matthew 5:17)

    I am willing to concede that, for the most part, he is portrayed as not as rabid as the Old Testament writers, but he is still utterly intolerant of non-Christians. Many Christians today still follow his example and there are those who carry this to extremes. Of course, the same can be said for some Muslims.

    That’s the problem with the teachings of the main religions; they breed intolerance and extremism. All religions seem to be an unnecessary evil.

    By Anonymous cjb, at 12:07 AM  

  • The two "Great Wars" that resulted in the deaths of untold millions: fought between mostly nominally Christian nations.

    The Civil War in our own nation was Christian brother against Christian brother.

    What do I think? I think peace-loving people of all religions manage to live peaceful lives and that war-accepting people of all religions manage to find reason to wage war within their scriptures.

    Daniel? YOU'RE arguing that Jesus was a pacifist? Isn't that my role here? I guess I'm not needed...

    Mary Ann: You're arguing that the Amish and Mennonites are conservative? Only if conservatives have embraced pacifism and hold capitalism at arm's length.

    And, for the record, I'm an anabaptist myself (the root of Amish/Mennonites), so I reckon you're calling me a conservative. But if that's the case, what does that make you all who disagree with me so much?

    Is it Opposite Day today?

    By Blogger Dan Trabue, at 5:07 AM  

  • Don't mean to say "I didn't mean what I actually said", but I think I put it wrong. I was meaning "conservative" in matters of religion, not politics.

    And you're right, the Civil War was fought by many Christians. But they weren't fighting merely for the purpose of making their religion supreme.

    Of course Christians have fought in wars (though I hate to think of Nazi Germany as "Christian") But my point was - excepting the Middle Ages and the Crusades - can you think of a large group of Christians who have gone out and indiscriminately killed simply because others don't agree with them and worship like them? I can't.

    I don't think Daniel was arguing that Jesus was a pacifist, but rather a "Man of Peace." There is a difference between not advocating violence, or even advocating peace, and completely disagreeing with war whatsover.

    And you remember, too that I am a Seventh-day Adventist, and many people in my denomination are pacifist (check out the book "A Thousand Shall Fall" that I listed under my favorite books.) I disagree with that. I don't like wars, but I believe that wars are sometimes necessary. So there is obviously a debate even among those of the same denomination.

    Now, I hate to argue about the Bible, because I find it rather pointless, but I do think that the Bible justifies war. It could be argued that it also justifies killing (which is what cjb was saying) because of instances in the Old Testament. I am not going to say that the Old Testament isn't valid or anything like that, but in books such as Deutoronomy when killings were ordered, or when all the prophets of Baal were killed, etc., it was different. The people were under direct rule from God. They knew exactly what He wanted them to do. I think that killings like that are not justified today, because we are obviously not under direct rule from God.

    However; that isn't war. I suppose I could say that we don't know if God wanted us to go to war, either - and you know what - He might not have. But I don't think God wants innocent people being killed. If we didn't do something against Iraq, more of our people would have been murdered.

    Oh, yeah, and God also believes in Justice. Saddam really has Justice coming.

    By Blogger Mary Ann, at 5:55 AM  

  • "And you remember, too that I am a Seventh-day Adventist"

    So am I Mary Ann. I received my MD from Loma Linda University and attented SDA schools all my like.

    I can't for the life of understand why you would believe that God stands behind George W. Bush and his group. I have always been a Republican except for this administration.

    By Blogger Ranando, at 6:07 AM  

  • While do not deny that Christians have gone to war, and have even gone to holy wars like the crusades, I am saying that this is in opposition to what Jesus taught. (The holy wars that is) Muslim son the other hane are told by Mohammad, through the Koran, specifically to kill infidels. So while violent Christians are acting in opposition to the teachings and example of Jesus, violent Muslims are acting in accordance with the teachings and actions of Mohammad.

    Such is the difference in the root of these two religions.

    By Blogger Daniel Levesque, at 6:14 AM  

  • Really, Ranando, this is getting comical.

    "I'm a Conservative."
    "You are one sick F***!" Oh, I'm a Conservative too!

    "I'm an Adventist."
    "Me too!"

    By Blogger Rebekah, at 9:51 AM  

  • Oh, yes. I can speak for my sister here. We don't think God is necessarily behind George Bush. Nobody knows that for sure.
    It's just maddening that others claim God is against him.

    By Blogger Rebekah, at 9:53 AM  

  • If you are a member of the SDA church, then you know that God is not behind Bush. Bush goes to church on Sunday, Bush does not keep the seventh day holy (Saturday). Bush eats pork and other foods that SDA don't believe in. SDA's not not believe in Nostradamus or in any other writing. The Bible and Ellen G. White, period. I could go on and on.

    By Blogger Ranando, at 1:15 PM  

  • As to the church on Saturday thing, in 1 Corinthians we are exhorted not to be overly caught up in rituals, to include sabbath days. We are also warned not ot forsake the gathering of ourselves together. By this standard I'd say Sunday's a fine day for church, as is Saturday.

    By Blogger Daniel Levesque, at 1:26 PM  

  • Ranando, Seventh-day Adventists also don't believe in calling a fifteen year old girl "one sick f***."

    Neither the Bible nor Ellen G. White ever said that all Sunday keepers were going to hell. But I didn't say anything about Bush's religion. I was talking about the war in Iraq, and whether God was behind him on the war, and you are changing the subject again.

    Daniel, I disagree with you on the Sabbath (are there any other Commandments that aren't valid?), but that's a debate that I really don't want to get into right now.

    By Blogger Mary Ann, at 3:08 PM  

  • You're wasting your breath. Ranando is probably just trying to make Adventists(which he probably googled to get his info on) look bad.

    By Blogger Rebekah, at 3:10 PM  

  • Maryann,

    I wasn't denigrating the Sabbath. I was just pointing out that we are exhorted by Paul not to worry so much about the specific day we gather to worship as we are to be concerned about gathering to worship. I would never presume to call one of the 10 Commandments invalid. That would be blasphemy.

    By Blogger Daniel Levesque, at 3:18 PM  

  • Mary Ann and Rebekah,

    I went to San Fernando Valley Academy for 12 years, then to UCLA and then to Loma Linda University.

    My grandparents, my parents and all brothers and sisters are SDA's.

    You believe what you want. I've said it again and again that I'm sorry for what I said, I did not know you were 15 Years old.

    I know the church inside and out, do I agree with them, not always.

    Take it or leave it, I really don't care.

    By Blogger Ranando, at 3:36 PM  

  • Ranando;
    Alright, whatever. Just one question. You said earlier that you'd supported all Republican administrations except this one, or something like that. Than you said:
    If you are a member of the SDA church, then you know that God is not behind Bush. Bush goes to church on Sunday, Bush does not keep the seventh day holy (Saturday). Bush eats pork and other foods that SDA don't believe in.

    Well, unless I missed something, there hasn't yet been an SDA president. All the previous Rebublican presidents have all gone to church on Sunday, and alll the other things you mentioned. Just a little contradiction I noticed.

    By Blogger Mary Ann, at 5:17 AM  

  • BTW, Daniel,

    Sorry that I took your comment wrong. I still disagree with you, but I think I will open a huge can of worms if I start that discussion.

    By Blogger Mary Ann, at 5:19 AM  

  • Extreme Muslims who advocate killing, terrorism and hate are scum. This cannot be denied. Extreme Christians who do the same are also scum. Religion always seems to be a motivating factor in all the bad shit that goes down. War after war after war. For what? The 'My God is better than your God' brigades do my head in! If I could cast a spell to erase all organised religion I would gladly do so, as it would make people think for themselves rather than live their lives according to various peoples' interpretations of some very old holy books.

    By Blogger DanProject76, at 3:23 AM  

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