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Monday, December 05, 2005

A Comparison of Conservatives and Liberals

In Word this was in really neat columns. I guess blogger doesn't allow that.

Conservatives

The US was founded on Judeo/Christian values.

Understand the role of religion in government.

Marriage is about families.

We are responsible for our actions.

Democracy and Capitalism good!

You can say anything.

The military is a necessity.

Give generously to charity and help the needy.

Education is failing because of bad teaching.

We must find a way to preserve the environment while preserving our needs and way of life.

Preserve the environment by funding reclamation projects and purchasing tracts of land to be set aside as reserves.


Value ALL human life.


Have the guts to stick with an unpleasant or dangerous task until it is finished.

Believe in national sovereignty.






Liberals

The US was founded as a secular nation.


Think religion has no role in government.

Marriage is about rights.

It’s all society’s fault.

Communism and Socialism good!

You can say as long as I agree with it.

The military is a waste of money.

Tax generously and redistribute wealth to the lazy along with the needy.

Education is failing because we aren’t spending enough on it.

We must protect everything about nature regardless of the cost or consequences.


Think they are protecting the environment by suing businesses and mounting protests where several dump trucks worth of litter is left lying around.

Value the lives of murderers and rapists over the lives of babies and cripples.

Cut and run at the first sign of adversity.


Believe in UN supremacy / globalism.

23 Comments:

  • Daniel!
    Do you really believe that?

    The US was founded in order to provide freedom OF religion. Any religion, not just Christianity.

    Religion should have NO role in the goverment. Isn't that why the first settlers left England and came to America? To be rid of the oppressive 'religious' government?

    Marriage can be about families. But family can be defined in a number of ways. Not all families have a Mom and a Dad. A good many have one or the other. Where ever you have people who come together in love and concern for one another that's a family.
    Marriage is about a relationship between a man and a woman. Children are not necessay to make a marriage. I also believe adultry is the BIGGEST threat to marriage that exists today. That and a lack of respect for the union itself.

    We should be held responsible for our actions. As well as for our inaction.

    Democracy is good, as is Capitalism. I don't know ANYONE who thinks communisim is or was a good thing. And I know LOTS of liberals.

    Clearly you can say anything. Most of us do. What your missing out on is when we object to what others say, that's us (as in you and me) saying anything. It works well that way.

    The military is necessary. Miltary action is NOT always necessary. Thus the need for diplomats and diplomacy.

    Give to charity and help the needy? I believe a survey was done back several years ago where it was shown that by a large majority liberals are far more generous with not only their contributions but their time as well.

    I don't think education is failing. I have children who have recently graduated and they are well educated. They learned more in elementary school than I did in high school. A good many high school courses would have been college level when I was in school. It's not all bad. Our education system needs work, and yea poor teachers are part of the problem. But there are a lot of hardworking and excellent teachers out there. They just don't get much attention.

    I completely agree with your last five statements.

    I guess that makes me conservativly liberal. I think a good many who are labled liberals think the way I do. The problem is there are those who don't want to see it that way. Liberals aren't conservatives so they must be bad. ALL of them. It simply isn't so.
    That's what happens when you try to pigeon-hole people. Some of us round folks just won't fit into those square holes.

    By the way, I'd love to add you to my blogroll. Do you have a preference as to which blog, or would you like to be on both?

    By Blogger wanda, at 11:47 PM  

  • Very well said Wanda and I completely agree.

    By Blogger Ranando, at 2:30 AM  

  • A day spent pissing off the left, is a day well spent...

    And it should be *Freedom FROM Religion*...

    I think that was the real intent of the folks that left England Wanda..

    Ya done good Daniel, as always...

    Keep hammaring...

    By Blogger TexasFred, at 3:01 AM  

  • Viva la Murderers and kill the babies and trash the earth while you're at it!

    You got me pegged, DL.

    By Blogger Dan Trabue, at 5:27 AM  

  • Goodness. This is turning out to be a contentious one.

    Be aware that this is based of how people are portrayed in the news by the actions that get reported and by the words of the talking heads from each side of the aisle.

    Be aware that I am fully aware that there are ALWAYS exceptions.

    By Blogger Daniel Levesque, at 6:18 AM  

  • Daniel, most lefties believe very little of what you've stated we believe and few would disagree with most of your conservative list.

    You have a skewed view of those on the left, says one who is there. I''m suggesting that sweeping generalizations that may or may not be true are not especially helpful.

    By Blogger Dan Trabue, at 6:56 AM  

  • It's all about perception. If anyone thnks this perception is false then I suggest you do something to change it.

    I appreciate the individuality of people and understand that generaliztions are never universaly true. But generalizations are based on a percieved majority. Don't like it? Get the national perception changed.

    A question for liberals. Considering this is the perception of many Americans, would you cal the media that has perpetrated this image a friend or an enemy?

    By Blogger Daniel Levesque, at 7:18 AM  

  • Daniel: I thought this was right on and extremely accurate. Couldn't have said it better myself. Obviously there are exceptions but like you said if libs don't want to be perceived this way then they need to do something to change it. Like for a start muzzling Howard Dean since he represents their party and believes every single thing on that liberal list.

    By Blogger Little Miss Chatterbox, at 7:56 AM  

  • "Considering this is the perception of many Americans, would you call the media that has perpetrated this image a friend or an enemy?"

    As I've said all along, the media is not especially leftwing. They are MSM. Mainstream. Left and Right and some inbetween.

    Commondreams.org would be a leftwing media. Rush would be a rightwing media. MSM is mainstream and it may be that they contribute to the popular opinion about liberals amongst some that is as you describe.

    Having said that, Daniel, I'd suggest that I've not seen much in the MSM that paints liberals as you do. That sort of malignment tends to come from the Rushes of the world.

    And that being the case, it is not surprising to me that many who listen to the rightwing media have this opinion of liberals, but I don't know that the opinion you espouse is the popular conception of liberals - only the popular opinion amongst rightwing media consumers.

    By Blogger Dan Trabue, at 9:08 AM  

  • I agree with everything except maybe one. I don't think our education is failing because of bad teachers...at least it's not the main reason.
    It's because to many parents are not involved in their childrens education. Parents need to stop being spectators and get in the game w/ pushing, inspiring, and motivating their children to learn and do well in school. If no one at home is putting an importance on education I guarantee you that kid won't either and then it won't matter how good the teacher is.

    By Blogger Corie, at 9:22 AM  

  • Well, I pretty much agree with everything on that post. Well said!

    By Blogger Rebekah, at 9:48 AM  

  • Daniel said:
    If anyone thnks this perception is false then I suggest you do something to change it.

    That's why I like chatting here with you: To be the voice and face of a real liberal and not the non-existent, boogieman/strawman liberal that gets created by some rightwing folk.

    Just as you can be the voice and face of a real conservative for me. It's much easier to hate a fictional monster than a real friend with whom you disagree. So, here's to monster-slaying!

    By Blogger Dan Trabue, at 10:12 AM  

  • I was reading posts and comments and it is obvious there is something missing here. Namely, the goofy quotes and talking points of Howard Dean, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Al Gore, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and most of the Hollywood crowd is missing.

    Since most Liberals and Democrats agree with the aforementioned people, vote for them year in and out, and pay millions to see them on the silver screen, I assume Liberals and Democrats agree with these dignitaries.

    On the other hand, maybe rank and file Liberals and Democrats consider the previously mentioned nabobs just entertainment. And, Liberals and Democrats really do look at the world objectively. I wonder.

    By Blogger T.L. Stanley, at 2:00 PM  

  • Many liberals vote for the aforementioned but only because that is the best the Dem party offers. So, what's your point, Clark Kent?

    To address your conservative list a bit, Daniel (if I may, as a liberal):

    Liberals believe:
    1. The US was founded on Judeo/Christian values, along with many other values, such as those springing from the Enlightenment and from the Iroquois confederacy. We are the result of all that brought us here, as always.

    2. Understand the role of religion in gov't? And what is that?

    3. Marriage is about families. I'm fine with that, as are my gay friends and their families. Marriage is also about community, I'd suggest.

    4. Yes, we are responsible for our actions, which is why liberals are in favor of responsible treatment of the enviroment, along with many other areas.

    5. Democracy and capitalism are good, but not perfect. I'm sure you'd agree. On the flipside, communism/socialism are not evils. Oppressive totatlitarianism is an evil. There's a difference.

    6. You can say anything? Okay, sure. Not "fire" in a crowded theater, but otherwise, okay.

    7. Many consider a defensive military a necessity and that's fine. When we start invading other countries and taking away their democracy (see Nicaragua), it is a wrong use of the fine men and women who make up the military. When we have a military that's the size of the next twelve nations' combined, there's a serious Big Gov't problem.

    8. Sure, give generously to the needy, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, change systems that keep folk needy.

    9. Education is not failing, we're educating over 90% of the population (in the 50s, it was only 50%). We struggle with education some because it is a difficult job to educate everyone, especially given that 1 in 4 children are living in poverty, often with only one parent in their life.

    10. We must find a way to work that allows us to preserve the environment. The economy is a subset of Ecology and not the other way around.

    11. Value all human life. Including Iraqi lives. Including Sudanese lives. Including Colombian lives, etc, etc.

    12. Have the guts to finish a job with Justice, even at risk to ourselves.

    13. Believe in national/local sovereignty and strong local economies. Also believe that we need strong international laws and treaties and the guts to stick to them.

    As you see, your list for conservatives mostly fits with liberals as well (with some adaptations). Your list for liberals is mostly bogus, with some hints at truth.

    By Blogger Dan Trabue, at 3:49 PM  

  • DL, these are interesting lists.
    When I was in college, I ran into a lot of liberals students and professors. In fact, most college students and professors in California are now liberals and proud of it. Gosh, you don't dare have an idea that is conservative in class.

    I have been reading liberal, moderate, and conservative blogs for the past 6 months. It has been an interesting journey. I am enjoying the posts on the Raving Conservative blog site. I have a question. Do liberal thinkers consider a Fidel Castro style communist form of government based on the theories of Karl Marx a better way to live than an American style participative democracy? I wonder?

    Take care.

    By Blogger T.L. Stanley, at 3:22 AM  

  • There are some advantages and disadvantages to Castro's Cuba, based upon what I've heard from people who have lived and/or visited there, plus what I've read.

    Cuba has been forced (largely due to our embargoes on Cuba) to make herself more sustainable. There are lots of cyclists and pedestrians/fewer cars and the cities are bike/ped friendly and this contributes to a more sustainable society.

    Additionally, Cuba has a vibrant, healthy largely organic produce industry. Everyone grows food and crops are grown everywhere, even (especially) in the cities. Again, this makes for a more sustainable society.

    On the very downside, Cuba has a poor human rights record and has problems with her freedom of press, speech and religion.

    I do not sugar coat Castro's rapidly winding down turn in power. He has problems.

    But so do we.

    Cuba has not, for instance, overthrown democratically elected leaders in other countries, we have.

    Cuba has not, for instance, taken covert actions resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands. We have.

    Cuba has not forced economic sanctions on other countries resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands. We have.

    Cuba is not perfect. Neither are we. Would I trade one for the other? No. I'd take what I like about one and add it to what I like about the other.

    In short, I like a representational gov't (unlike what we have here and what they have in Cuba), I like a heavily-regulated capitalist model with the redistribution of the wealth going down more rather than up (which is what we have here). I like sustainable models of society.

    Sorry so long, but I felt your question would better be served by a more complete answer.

    By Blogger Dan Trabue, at 5:07 AM  

  • ...In short, I like a representational gov't (unlike what we have here


    Trabue, you HAVE a representative republic here. That's what our government is. Didn't you know that? Apparently not due to the (unlike what we have here) remark.

    Problemo, Senor? See you REPRESENTATIVE!

    Adios, Muchacho

    By Blogger Phantom_Driver, USNR, Ret., at 8:42 AM  

  • NOMINALLY, we have a representative government. In reality, I've never had much representation of my views, as is the case for most Greens and Libertarians.

    I'd prefer the proportional representation as they have in Germany and other places, where, if 10% of the populace is Green, then 10% of the representation is Green.

    Why wouldn't we give most groups at least some representation? The alternative is to have large portions of the population with no voice in government and that can't be good.

    By Blogger Dan Trabue, at 9:11 AM  

  • But Dan, in every communist nation of all time the only people being represented were the actual people in charge as they continually crushed the population underfoot. There is nothing redeeming about any communist government.

    By Blogger Daniel Levesque, at 10:47 AM  

  • That's not what I heard from the horse's mouth in Nicaragua (from peasant farmers who wondered who gave Reagan the right to destroy their democratically-elected communist country under Ortega).

    By Blogger Dan Trabue, at 11:15 AM  

  • dan, your list is something quite wrong indeed. I'll take issue with a few here rather than the whole thing.

    2. Governments role in religion is to foster an open role for religion. The government does not establish a religion by having the 10 comandments in a courthouse, it does when it forces you to memorize them. Understand the difference? The current liberal response to anything Christian in a public place is that of intolerence and bigotry.

    3. Marriage is about family. 2 men are not a family. 2 women are not a family. 1 man with 2 women is not a family. 20 men and 20 women are not a family. A family is a mother and a father. There is a reason that 2 men cannot have a child naturally, nor can 2 women have a child naturally. Family is NOT a community thing either. It does not take a village, it takes a mother and a father. There are some great families with one or the other alone, but I know no one who thinks it's a great idea to raise a child by themselves.

    4. Responsible like preventing the clearing of undergrowth so that forests burn and throw "dangerous" co2 into the atmosphere? Responsible like blowing up cars because you think that a vehicle is going to destroy the environment? Responsible like killing thousands of adoptable pets and dumping their bodies in dumpsters? Yes, you folks are very responsible.

    5. Name one Socialist or communist country that is not also an oppressive country. You cant.

    8. What system are you proposing to change? People need hand outs to get up? If I gave a poor person 30k a year and said now you can find yourself a job, what incentive is there for him to find a job? None, he will take my money until I cut it off, only then will he become self sufficient, but if you leave him on the dole for years on end, he will lose his ability to become self sufficient. Your beliefs created this problem, stop the hand outs, give them a hand up.

    9. Your idea of "educated" is laughable. Under what circumstances is someone "educated"? How many people cant do basic math out of high school? A lot, I deal with a lot of percentages each day at work and every new person I have to train on how to do enlargements and reductions and the very very simple formula to do so. It is difficult to educate people when you have teachers with no reason to teach. Tenure and teachers unions have ruined teaching. What we need is a at the very least a voucher system to allow people to choose where they want to send their child. Competition improves businesses every time it's tried, why wouldnt it work in education?

    11. We value American lives FIRST. I value your life over any other person in any other country in the world. Even though I despise you because you are a liberal, I would prevent someone from killing you simply because you are an American. The only people we kill are the ones who are trying to kill us. We dont target civilians despite what your warped mind may think.

    12. see 11.

    13. We put ourselves above any other country as every other country will do. You think if we instituted a treaty with China that became unfavorable to them that they would stick with it? If you do, liberalism has truly warped your mind.

    By Blogger Haximus, at 6:45 PM  

  • DL, it seems that some are arguing that Communist Cuba may be a good place to live.

    I have the following questions about Communist Cuba. 1. Does Cuba still have the largest fleet of 1957 Chevy taxi cabs in the world? 2. I remember Australian swimmer Susie Marony swimming 112 miles non-stop, without a flotation device, from Cuba to the US in 1997. Has anyone in Cuba been able to do this? 3. In 2005, Forbes Magazine stated that Fidel Castro was one of the richest men in the world with a wealth estimated at $550,000,000. Some say it is closer to $700,000,000. Which is correct? 4. Fidel Castro's daughter, Alina Fernandez Revuelta, escaped from Cuba disguised as a Spanish tourist in 1993. Does she still live in guarded exile in Miami Florida? And, is she still demonstrating against her father Fidel Castro, and the evils of Communist Cuba?

    Gosh, Cuba is an intriguing place.

    Take care.

    By Blogger T.L. Stanley, at 7:30 PM  

  • if blogger will allow html, and I think it will, you can use a table for making columns. Here is the code, replace the curly brackets with triangles of course:

    {table}
    {tr}
    {td}left side stuff{/td}
    {td}right side stuff{/td}
    {/tr}
    {/table}

    By Blogger McTANK, at 11:51 AM  

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